8/2/2005
Over There
American Soldier says,
I commented earlier this week that I liked the show Over There to a certain degree. However I want to clarify and say that I think alot of it is a bunch of hoopla. It is Hollywood and I wish the producers would have consulted some people who might have been there. And if they did and decided to cut it like they did then shame on them. The show will not succeed if they display bullshit scenarios.
The Sergeant yelling at all the privates on the berm while getting shot at. If I was one of those Privates I would told that guy to go fuck himself. He wasn’t doing shit to keep them alive. He was just laying on the berm just like them yakking at the mouth. I have a feeling that character will die the day before he goes home. Now that’s Hollywood!
The digging trenches in the dark, I’m sorry but you can mistake the sound of an E-Tool whacking against the desert ground. The sentry’s would have heard that noise from a mile away.
Let’s see…..I didn’t like how they depicted the females. Like they were incapable of being a Soldier. However they did write them to be one too tough for her britches (Mrs. B) and one clueless (Doublewide).
The end of the show kind of bothered me a bit. When the truck drove over a FLAG IED. I’m sorry but IED’s are inside animal carcasses, buried in the ground, etc. They don’t get marked so nicely. Also for anyone that has ever been there. Trucks stop in the middle of the road, no matter what. We own the roads there. So pulling off the road is a testament that they didn’t consult anyone that new the routines and standard procedures over there.
Now I know this show is suppose to give the American public a glimpse into what Soldiers do over there. However if it’s just a producer trying to get rich off the sacrifices of my fellow Soldiers sacrifices, I am going to black list it. I as well as many other Milblogs can make one hell of an affect on the ratings of that show. I know at least 195,000 people would support me.
I will say this, the part of the show I think was dead on was the scenes from back home. The cheating wife. The husband and his baby. This is where the crux of hardship exists, Over here!
So the producers of Over There…..consult people who have lived, breathed and shit this war!
Sincerely,
American Soldier
Filed under: General, News from home
35 Responses to “Over There”
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*sigh* I wish we got FX!!! We had to downgrade our satelite to the basic, basic, basic… i.e., local channels & Fox News only, LOL… I didn’t realize we didn’t have FX till i went to watch a rerun of the first episode over the weekend, since i missed the original airing…. ARGH!
*ahem* Anyway, hope all is well!
HeyAS,
I began to watch the show, and about 1/2 through I just couldn’t take it any longer. I totally agree with you, I’ll not be watching it again.
Happy to know you are doing better. My bro is still in the sandbox, his XO said that he is doing some incredible things….can’t wait till he gets home, and I get to hear some of it!!
AS,
I’ve heard so many negative comments about Over There from soldiers themselves that I won’t be watching the show. Thanks for your comments on the show. You guys who have been there know where of you speak and the producers, like you said, need to consult soldiers about what you guys went through before making a show like this one.
It isn’t fair to you guys who have and are serving in the military to portray something about Iraq that is just plain wrong and it gives we average citizens a warped view of what really goes on “over there”!
Thanks again for your comments and God Bless!!
I am an Iraq vet, Marine Corps Major, tried to watch this tv show and was absolutely disgusted at the “Hollywoodization”. I had to turn it off halfway through and swore to my wife that this show was never to be turned on again in our home. I understand the concept of “dramatic license”, but this was over the line. Nearly every single aspect of the show was unrealistic and provided an over-simplified and unrealistic image of what our military members go through on a daily basis. Since when do we enter into “negotiations” with a group of terrorists shooting at us?? Maybe the French do that to get them to stop shooting at you, but every service member knows that if somebody shoots at you, LIGHT THEM UP, NO QUESTIONS ASKED! And to have an NCO barking at soldiers not to defend themselves?? What the hell is that? Even more disturbing was the fact that it was quite evident that the producer, Steven Bochco, was applying the old Vietnam-era stereotype of the clueless, bungling officer that makes assonine decisions while the troops simply sit around and lament about how he doesn’t care about them and gets them killed. No officer would ORDER his men into an uncovered position becuase “he said so”, even though they were under fire. Every soldier/Marine knows the value of cover from fire, no discussion necessary. They also know when it is necessary to take risks to accomplish the mission and press the attack. Equally disturbing was the stereotypical fresh-faced “new-guy” (FNG) that goes around asking why everyone has nicknames or callsigns. Is that the only thing that Hollywood types think the military is about, interesting nicknames? Did Bochco simply copy the scene from Forrest Gump?
And one more thing Hollywood, MORTARS, ARTILLERY, AND GRENADES DO NOT EXPLODE IN FLAME!!!!!!!!!! Indirect fire weapons result in a violent explosion of very dark smoke, debris, and shrapnel, there is NO FLAME involved.
Every aspect of this show was assonine and Steven Bochco is just using the war as an excuse to reiterate his Vietnam-era impression of the military, simply juxtaposing today’s war with that one.
As a Marine Vietnam veteran with a Marine son who has served twice in Iraq and a Soldier son in law that has been there twice and is currently serving there, I chose not to watch the bullshit presentation. They most notably are hyped up for emotional response. One word of advice, when Hollywood or politicians start their patriotic messages, run the other way. It’s not their ass on the line or their children who are scarred, maimed, or killed.
i agree with your post. i do. i watched the show hoping it would show more of what the soldiers over there are doing and going through day to day. i was incredibly pist off as i watched it though, and ended up just turning it off. it made me really, genuinely mad. it reminded me of all those vietnam era films showing how the folks at home didnt like it and the guys were dying for nothing.
the scene that really took the cake and sent me over the edge was when the guy is doing his video email to his wife telling her how lucky he was to be her husband then pans to her doing the humpty with some other dude while he’s sending that email. im sick to death of hollywood doing everything they can to undercut the effort in iraq. that was classless, tasteless and a slap in the face to military families. every little scene, everything in that show seems to be a dig of some sort aimed at the troops, or the war in iraq. the show made me sick.
ev
Hi AS,
I gave up on “Over There” after only 5 minutes. Despite the fact that I have not served in the armed forces, I could recognize the BS. All they got right was the uniforms. They certainly don’t know what an effective fighting team is like.
What junk. It is embarassing to see our VOLUNTEER combat forces are being portrayed in this manner.
I was upse that I missed the show. But after reading what you wrote and the comments,I wont bother watching it. Thank you for what you and those like you,do for our country
What about cheating husbands (and wives) in Iraq? I am a veteran myself with 2 children in the Army. My daughter was in Iraq (she’s single) and was involved with a married man. It’s not just the folks at home that lose their morals.
J,
You are right. However it did depict that in the show. Not saying that everyone does that but it does happen. So, my apologize if I made it sound like a blanket statement.
I myself and married and I don’t cheat and know many Soldiers with the same morals.
I’ve never been a soldier, but I’ve known a few including my husband. This show is pure crap. It’s like Jon said, it’s Hollywoodization.(is that a word…lol)
Maybe a moviemaker will use REAL soldiers for advice and make one that is real, or would the Pentagon allow that
I’m into watching sci-fi anymore, that’s just as accurate as that show.
I’ve read some articles on the show and they claim to have actually consulted soldiers who served in Iraq…I even saw a clip on TV of them screening it to some soldiers and the soldiers saying comments that affirmed its similarity to their time there…about fears that their loved ones were cheating, about being injured and wanting to get back to their unit…
so far I find it very non-political - I see how some charaters may be sterotyped and have their errors, but all people, soldiers or not, have their weaknesses
Even if the show has it’s faults I think the US short attention spanned public needs something to keep their focus on what soldiers are enduring in the Middle East (of course I mean non-mil US public) - even some of our elected officials could use a little splash of water in their face to keep them on task… (instead of taking vacations/recess)
As, I agree with most of your comments. I looked at the “flagged IED” as a marked landmine or UXO that wasn’t noticed. As a soldier who rolled north in March ‘03 there was so much shit that was marked and not marked. Most of the mines were in a general area that was cordoned off. Still, you stepped in other people’s tracks. I had to stop watching the show during this scene, mostly because it seemed fake and it made me think of a VBIED attack … they got it wrong.
This is my first time wondering upon this site. I haven’t explored much, but this is my first step in dealing with feelings from my time in Iraq from the beginning of the war and from OIF3. Thanks, take care.
I’ve been watching Over There, and while it’s wall-to-wall with inaccuracies, the American people expect a significant level of “Hollywoodization”. No matter.
The despair, the death, and the loyalty between soldiers portrayed, albeit over-dramatically (in some cases), might be exactly what America needs to get the idea of what our soldiers have to go through.
I’ve talked to a couple of people who think that our guys stay in hotels at night, like they’re all working for Halliburton. Or that “They don’t have it so bad. In my day, . . .”
The sub-plot stories of betrayal do seem true to life, and would be extremely painful to the people “over there”. I hope the show’s plot holds off in letting the betrayed know what their spouse is up to, because the betrayed might just let themselves go . . .
Try to take Over There as a poor, yet souped-up attempt to let uninvolved people know that things in Iraq are far scarier and more ridiculous than they ever really thought. It might even have an effect on old veterans who think they’re the only ones who know what war is really like.
I would not watch the show … nor would I go
to what was to be I believe a Tom Cruise movie
about Falluja.
There shold be a five year gap starting after the last
soldier is home before Hollywood gets involved with
war.
The leftists fools all cried Halliburton a thousand times
but … lets see who is the biggest war profiteer to date???
… Michael Moore.
Conditions for making “war” movies and TV shows
1) 5 year Gap
2) extensive consultation with soldiers who were there.
3) profits monitored by independent accounting firm.
At least 1/2 of all profit goes to:
a) families of the soldiers whose lives were lost.
b) those who suffered severe wounds
c) much more advanced research to better protective gear
d) more advance research into robotics so the next generation
American soldier can sit in an air conditioned office
with a can of Coke and a joystick controlling
5 robots
I am a leech that thanks you who serve for laying your lives on the line for America and the Worlds’ Freedoms of so many (I have never served obviously).
Thanks for speaking up about the show. I had meant to watch it and still may take in an episode still out of curiosity sake, however I will not be supportting the show nor following it hearing your reports. I hope my actions are a bit of support for you.
Seems Unholywood is not capale of doing justice to those who serve or things that are generally true in life. I have no idea how they get such crooked views of the world, but the dollar and the ego is always their god.
Best regards
I refused to watch it after I heard negative things about it from soldiers that were there. I do think they could save it if they show the majority of what goes on over there, the rebuilding, making town, village and city elections happen. Training the Iraqi’s, handing out toys, school equipment, creating clinic, rebuilding hospitals. The Iraq children eager to see the American soldier. Women protests against Islamic law. Show the towns that have gotten clean water and electricity for the first time as well computers, satelite dishes so they could be involved in the world again. Unless they balance it out the show will fail quickly.
I work on over there, and let me tell you that the tec advisor who has lived and breathed that shit first hand in iraq has pushed hard to make things as true as possible, but in the first episode a lot of things got vetoed, HOWEVER the following episodes are much more true to life because the producers now realize how important getting this shit right is!!! So all of you who won’t watch it because of the first episode I implore you to watch the first five minutes of the next one… TV like anything is a learning process, we can’t get everything right, but stick with us and I assure you we’ll do our troops justice.
first impressions are lasting impressions and over there wanted to paint our soldiers as baffoons and they did. But us who have soldiers over there know the truth.
Kettle Black,
I don’t know about the qualifications of your “tec advisor”, but I would sure like to hear about them. In fact, I would be curious to know what vetting process ANY Hollywood technical advisor for the military goes through. If this person is not even able to get the basics right, I would truly question their abilities. I mean, come on, there are many many things that are completely off base with the episode that I saw. It appeared to me to be just another vehicle for somebody to make social statements, with little or no attention given to creating a realistic picture of what life is like in combat and in particular in combat in Iraq. If your technical guys can’t even get the little things correct, then what does that say about the bigger picture? Everything from your actors wearing crystal clean uniforms and gear, doing things in “combat” that would NEVER happen (see my earlier post), and portraying firefights as if they were paintball games. My favorite is always the flame-filled explosions.
But, the REAL disgrace is the script-writing. Soldiers saying things that soldiers don’t say, doing things they don’t do, and the military being portrayed yet AGAIN as the last refuge for the poor and unfortunate of American society. One soldier being called “Dim” for having gone to college and still joining the military. By the way, I went to college and still joined the Marines, as did every single other officer I served with and a pretty good number of the troops also.
No matter what, Hollywood will just never be able to create a film, tv show, or anything else about the military without also attempting to make some sort of political statement.
Your “technical advisor” should be fired on the spot.
Most Hollywood technical advisors were probably rear-echelon MF’s (REMFs is a common Marine Corps term) in my opinion. We also like to call them pogues or Rear-echelon commandos.
I for one am upset with the lack of attention to the basics. I understand how Hollywood can be, though. Everything Hollywood touches loses its essence in my opinion. But the American public needs a reminder that this is a Country at war. Regardless of political outlooks, those of us that are no longer in the military are baffled everyday by the lack of interest by the general public. Since we don’t have a draft, rations, war cartoons or impromptu baseball leagues, we need something to remind us that freedom isn’t free. And for that, thanks “over there”!
-at home recovering, be back soon Hooah!
Come on it’s just a show relax everything can’t be that detailed and we know that women are not even allowed in combat or on the frontlines it’s just a show for entertainment
Ps. not to take any thing from the women they are doing a great thing but leave the real work for the men
simperfi
Jon (Maj, USMC) is in the ten ring on all counts. The “military consultant”, Sean Thomas Bunch, is not even coming close to getting it right. Yes, that’s his name. I heard him on the radio the other day. He is a former Marine, forward air controller, who did one tour (7 months) in Iraq. He was not an infantryman, nor was he in the Army, yet he is the advisor Bochco has chosen for this show. Can “Kettle Black” explain this? Why isn’t anyone from THE ARMY working on this show? Quite possibly because none of us would work on it after reading the script. Additionally, the Army Public Affairs office in Hollywood passed on participating after it read the script. Bochco and his family members, yes, his family are only interested in shock value. They know that the general public is basically clueless when it comes to Iraq and will accept whatever point of view is put before them, especially if it’s on TV.
To everyone that has served “Over There” and to all the spouses who supported us “Back Here”, thanks for everything. Keep fighting, and keep writing because one letter can make a difference. I was published in USA Today on August 8th and reached 2.8 million people.
Cheers!
Spike
OIF II Vet
Right on Spike! I concur.
Ok, I’m not military and I watch the show. Personally, I don’t feel as if the show is trying to make the soliders look bad and I don’t think the soldiers appear in a negative light. The show may fail in accuracy, but I believe it succeeds in showing that what the troops in Iraq are going through is rough and dangerous. We are intended to care about the characters and, if we somehow don’t already, the real soldiers who are actually in Iraq. I don’t believe the show takes any position on the war in Iraq other than, “It sucks to get shot at in 100+ degree weather.”
Does the show need to improve? Certainly. But as someone’s already indicated elsewhere, nothing survives a filter through television intact. Not police procedure, not the presidency, the courts, law offices or hospitals. They’re ALL unrealistic on television.
over there is unabated bullshit. ostensibly, it embraces the ethical/emotional connundrum of the enlisted soldier. blatantly, though, it advocates hyper-critical (not to mention ill-informed) theories of army leadership contrived by those who’ve never actually been ‘over there.’
a fictionalization of the absurd realities of the war would have been feasible, fascinating, and functional in furthering the public’s understanding of various day-to-day operations in iraq (to which they’re obviously oblivious). but sensationalization in pursuit of advertising revenue rules the day, and in the oft-repeated bevy of critical laud that accompanied the show’s premier, the conspiratorial auto-fellatio of the popular media was made nauseatingly apparent.
fuck ‘over there.’ all insipid discussion of the war aside, the ‘work’ does nothing more than realize negative stereotypes of the mercenary mass media that maligns our modern democracy.
In regards to “Over There”:
Thank you for recognizing the 3rd Infantry Division on this show. It’s nice to see that dog-faced soldiers who fight without television cameras (unless forced) are in the public’s eye. Most commonly we find special operations soldiers, Marines, and paratroopers in the spotlight. It’s comforting to see credit given to the mechanized infantry units which have proven undoubtedly the most lethal in Iraq.
However, the show is highly inaccurate and I could go on and on about the obvious details but I refuse. Enlisting the help of grunts as opposed to air traffic controllers can help with the reality. Now yesterday I watched the behind-the-scenes footage on the AOL website and was infuriated at the site of actors describing how they went through a ‘basic training’ to develop a mindset similar to the soldiers. I can’t wait for their highly publicized visit to Baghdad International Airport where they can visit the best in the Army’s service support troops. I’d rather load their asses into a light skin Humvee and make them drive out to Tal Afar, Fallujah, Ramadi, Mahmudiyah, or a Baghdad slum. How about they present their vast knowledge to a company of our finest infantrymen.
We shouldn’t hate everything about this show because I’m sure there is at least one member of the cast or crew that wants to show the cream puff liberal public what pains we face.
So far all the comments I’ve read from the active duty military about the series “Over There” are pretty brutal, probably well justified, but brutal. Prime time TV usually is cleaned up, so I’m not surprised that the show is not accurate, thank God. My husband is a retired Viet Nam Vet. I know that when he watches any modern day war movie after 3 minutes he storms off. None of them can really depict what really went on. All the hollywood versions make him angry and I really don’t think it’s post-traumatic-war-syndrome kicking in. It may sound corny but the old World War II movies and the John Wayne military movies are somewhat satisfying to him. They are far from realistic. John Wayne was never in the military. As a military man’s wife, military son’s mom and a military dad’s daugter, I admit, I take great comfort in having American heros to watch on TV. I’ve outgrown John Wayne and Audie Murphie. I happen to look forward to watching “Over There” because I don’t believe the days of chivalry are over. America has always needed the American hero. And you military men on the front lines of the battlefield are it. So what if the show is not entirely accurate. It just reminds me of how much we miss you, love you and pray for you. God bless you Knights in Shining Armor. Greatful in America.
I don’t have to be drunk to enjoy anything including watching shows like “Over There”. I wouldn’t say I enjoy the show either. But I do look forward to it because besides the biased news media feedback we get, a show like “Over There” is the closest that someone like me would probably get to the real McCoy. I don’t pretend to know what war is really like, nor would I want to be there. Thank God that our bravest and finest military in the world protects us from having to see it first hand. Sure the show is sanitized. I’d rather watch a sanitized version of “Over There” than some of the smut they show on local network primetime TV, they call sitcoms.
The only experience I’ve had to get an idea of what war is really like is second hand. The many war stories I’ve heard my dad talk about when he was in World War II and the Korean War as a sailor in the US Navy. My uncle was a POW in the Bataan death camps and to this day he cries whenever he talks about it. My Air Force uncle drank himself to death after his experiences in the war when he was with the MP’s.
My brother-in-law is an Army Major stationed in Germany who recently returned from a tour in Iraq.
My husband retired from the Air Force after 23 years of active duty service. He served as a Navigator, and Electronic Warfare Officer on B-52’s. He and his crew “The Old Crows” flew hundreds of missions in Viet Nam, where he served two tours. He served 2 tours in Omaha, SAC. Later he went on and became the squadron commander of the IAS group that located Kadafi. Even after my husband suffered a heart attack while working 18 hr days 7 days a week during “the peace-time cold war era” he still served active duty military for 5 additional years. He retired honorably in 1989 from the Air Force with a 60% disability. My husband has worked for the US Government Department of Defense since he retired from the Air Force. Ironically he works at the same place we met which is now Office of Aerospace Studies
I worked for Civil Service for the Department of Defense at the Office of Aerospace Studies where I met my husband. We worked with two German Scientists who were once members of the German Natzi military, brought here by our government for our own research labs after World War II. They had also corresponded with Albert Einstein on a regular basis before his death. I also worked for the Office of Naval Research
My youngest son is 13 and a member of the Civil Air Patrol. He is also with the Color Guard in his squadron. ( He and his dad put up two of our American flags everyday at school)
My other son got a appt. to the AF Academy, graduated in 1999 when the Air Force won the football championship and before any of those alleged scandals surfaced. My son is now a Captain serving as the American Contingent at NATO in charge of the American AWACS Division.
I thank God each and everyday for all the men in my life who had no qualms about serving in the military. I, in turn felt it an honor to serve and support them in anyway I could, even if only in prayer. I take nothing for granted. Though I don’t know what war is really like, I respect, and salute our valiant brave warriors on the front line
“Over there” seems to bring on pretty diverse emotions from it’s viewers. I guess it just depends on whos’ shoes you happen to be walking in. I don’t think the public can handle a reality show with real blood and guts. But I have noticed on the Sci Fi channel, that they all seem to be politically correct. I am not predjudice or a bigot, but just from my observation, the shows I’ve seen, seem to all have females or minorities in the roles of commander. The males always seem to be the damsel in distress and they always seem to portray the military as the villain. Am I way off base? Maybe I am out of touch, but I happen to like “American Choppers”.
The charactors are real. They use their talents to help raise money for good causes. I was never really into bikes before, but you’ve gotta admit the finished product is almost always awesome. Lately they donated the proceeds from 2 choppers they auctioned for our wounded warriors. The themes Paulie Jr. comes up with are pretty creative. This season they are supposed to design bikes for NASA, the Air Force, the Yankees and a group of others. I think the POW bike they did was probably the coolest so far. What do you think?
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While I haven’t been to Iraq or seen what it’s like I don’t think the show “Over There” is supposed to represent what is going over in Iraq in a true sense. It’s not supposed to be a documentary, or even a docu-drama where they take a little bit of truth and mix it in with drama. It’s Hollywood entertainment pure and simple with a little drama and spice added into it to make people watch. I’m on the Democratic side of the aisle to an extent and I don’t see this show as something that even truly tells the truth about what is happening over there. There is a little basis of fact to it, just simply Hollywood intrigue and drama for ratings purposes.
Hopefully the show does no harm, and convince someone that this is what it is really like in Iraq. I just look at it from a pure entertaiment point of view and enjoy it that way. Some little cliff hangers here and there, a battle of morales, I just think it tells a good ficitonal story.