11/15/2005
Proposition I - A disgrace!
American Soldier says,
I was watching the O’Reilly Factor this morning and Bill had a guy on there that disgusted me. This typical leftist elitist named Todd Chretien who wrote a proposition that bans recruiters from school campuses. The referendum goes by the name: College not Combat.
The referendum was drafted last year after students at San Francisco State University began protesting military recruiters on their campus. Todd Chretien, the author of the referendum, said “the impact of Prop I is tremendous” and shows that San Franciscans stand behind the students’ efforts. This win, he says, is only the beginning of a larger effort to get recruiters legally banned from campuses.
So hold up for just a moment. Obviously you see where this is going. One small battle won in a city that is known for its almost outlandish and sometimes spotlighted political agenda’s. Now don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that, but when it becomes a trend then I go by the old saying, if it walks like a duck, blah blah. I think people don’t see the hidden political movement in this referendum. If they do then they need to wake up and really smell the Java. If they want to offer alternative programs, that is fine. We live in America and everyone has a right to decide. However, don’t shun the ability to empower our youth by taking the recruiter away from the campuses. This is exactly what this referendum did in one city. Now the people behind this think that because it worked in one city, then they can take it to the federal level and ban recruiters from entering campuses across the US.
I wonder if these people realize that this war was a political decision and not the choice of the people that make up the military, including me. Why hone your attack on the people that protect your asses? So riddle me this Batman, if San Francisco residents don’t want recruiters in their school, should we not send any soldiers to their beloved city if a riot breaks out or if a natural disaster hits? I mean they don’t support the members of the Armed Forces right? So why should they reap the benefit when they may need it?
I am disgusted to think that a person would protest against the individual soldier. The ones who fight for the freedom, which in turn gives them the right to speak their mind. I think there is a problem with perception these days. Some civilians are angry because we are dying in Iraq. What they fail to understand is we are dying in the war on terror, whether in Iraq or somewhere else. Those bad people that we fight would not hesitate to come into your little town and snatch your daughter up in the middle of the night and gang rape her and then come to your house and do the same thing to your wife or husband, whatever your choice is. Think I am far fetch? What was Udays favorite past time when his daddy was in power? Would you consider that terrorism?
Let me help you understand the definition:
ter•ror•ism
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
So let this be one example that terrorism was occurring in Iraq. However this is not about Iraq. It’s the fact that the US is fighting the war on terror, wherever that may be. Iraq is just one of those countries that we are fighting it in. Will we go to other countries? Most likely!
However I am nothing but a mere soldier who is in the military and knows full well what I signed up for. Not to be led blindly and slaughtered in a land where we don’t belong. No my friends, I do it so we don’t have to fight the terrorists here. So if I were told to go to Iraq and fight. I would pick up my shit and go to Iraq. Without question or hesitation! Why you ask, because I prefer to take the battle to their home turf. I like to know that my family is safe where I live. I wish everyone could say that.
So back to the point. Should we empower our kids to make decisions? Yes we should. Do we do a disservice to them if we take a decision away from them? Yes we do. Should we offer more post graduate programs for our students? Yes we should. Can this be accommodated without throwing our recruiters off the campuses? Yes it can. The focus of the aforementioned referendum should have clearly defined how that can accommodated instead of inadvertently making it harder for recruiters to get their opportunity to students.
UPDATE: This is why. Comments are now closed and we are moving on. Like it or not, fuckoff if you don’t!
Mom,
Be my voice. I want this message heard. It is mine and my platoon’s to the country. A man I know lost his legs the other night. He is in another company in our batallion. I can no longer be silent after watching the sacrifices made by Iraqis and Americans everyday.Send it to a congressman if you have to. Send it to FOX news if you have to. Let this message be heard please…
My fellow Americans, I have a task for those with the courage and fortitude to take it. I have a message that needs not fall on deaf ears. A vision the blind need to see. I am not a political man nor one with great wisdom. I am just a soldier who finds himself helping rebuild a country that he helped liberate a couple years ago.
I have watched on television how the American public questions why their mothers, fathers, brothers, and sisters are fighting and dying in a country 9000 miles away from their own soil. Take the word of a soldier, for that is all I am, that our cause is a noble one. The reason we are here is one worth fighting for. A cause that has been the most costly and sought after cause in our small span of existence on our little planet. Bought in blood and paid for by those brave enough to give the ultimate sacrifice to obtain it. A right that is given to every man, woman, and child I believe by God. I am talking of freedom.Freedom. One word but yet countless words could never capture it’s true meaning or power. “For those who have fought for it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know.” I read that once and it couldn’t be more true. It’s not the average American’s fault that he or she is “blind and deaf” to the taste of freedom. Most American’s are born into their God given right so it is all they ever know. I was once one of them. I would even dare to say that it isn’t surprising that they take for granted what they have had all their life. My experiences in the military however opened my eyes to the truth.
Ironically you will find the biggest outcries of opposition to our cause from those who have had no military experience and haven’t had to fight for freedom. I challenge all of those who are daring enough to question such a noble cause to come here for just a month and see it first hand. I have a feeling that many voices would be silenced.
I watched Cindy Sheehan sit on the President’s lawn and say that America isn’t worth dying for. Later she corrected herself and said Iraq isn’t worth dying for. She badmouthed all that her son had fought and died for. I bet he is rolling over in his grave.
Ladies and gentleman I ask you this. What if you lived in a country that wasn’t free? What if someone told you when you could have heat, electricity, and water? What if you had no sewage systems so human waste flowed into the streets? What if someone would kill you for bad-mouthing your government? What if you weren’t allowed to watch TV, connect to the internet, or have cell phones unless under extreme censorship? What if you couldn’t put shoes on your child’s feet?
You need not to have a great understanding of the world but rather common sense to realize that it is our duty as HUMAN BEINGS to free the oppressed. If you lived that way would you not want someone to help you????
The Iraqi’s pour into the streets to wave at us and when we liberated the cities during the war they gathered in the thousands to cheer, hug and kiss us. It was what the soldier’s in WW2 experienced, yet no one questioned their cause!! Saddam was no better than Hitler! He tortured and killed thousands of innocent people. We are heroes over here, yet American’s badmouth our President for having us here.
Every police station here has a dozen or more memorials for officers that were murdered trying to ensure that their people live free. These are husbands, fathers, and sons killed every day. What if it were your country? What would your choice be? Everything we fight for is worth the blood that may be shed. The media never reports the true HEROISM I witness everyday in the Iraqi’s. Yes there are bad one’s here, but I assure you they are a minuscule percent. Yet they are a number big enough to cause worry in this country’s future.
I have watched brave souls give their all and lose thier lives and limbs for this cause. I will no longer stand silent and let the “deaf and blind” be the only voice shouting. Stonewall Jackson once said, “All that I have, all that I am is at the service of the country.” For these brave souls who gave the ultimate sacrifice, including your son Cindy Sheehan, I will shout till I can no longer. These men and women are heroes. Their spirit lives on in their military and they will never be forgotten. They did not die in vain but rather for a cause that is larger than all of us.My fellow countrymen and women, we are not overseas for our country alone but also another. We are here to spread democracy and freedom to those who KNOW the true taste of it because they fight for it everyday. You can see the desire in their eyes and I am honored to fight alongside them as an Infantryman in the 101st Airborne.
Freedom is not free, but yet it is everyone’s right to have. Ironic isn’t it? That is why we are here. Though you will always have the skeptics, I know that most of our military will agree with this message. Please, at the request of this soldier spread this message to all you know. We are in Operation Iraqi Freedom and that is our goal. It is a cause that I and thousands of others stand ready to pay the ultimate sacrifice for because, Cindy Sheehan, freedom is worth dying for, no matter what country it is! And after the world is free only then can we hope to have peace.
SGT Walter J. Rausch and 1st Platoon
101st Airborne Division (Air Assault)
Filed under: General
Welcome back.
You are watching that jackass O’Reilly on Faux News? No wonder your post is so simple-minded.
Not wanting recruiters on campus does not mean being unpatriotic, you addle-brained moron!
I am sick and tired of that idiotic attitude: ‘either you’
are with us, or you’re against us”.
The world is not black and white. Get used to it!
Also, get used to this: DISSENT is allowed in this country. If you don’t like, engineer a coup and replace this democracy by a dictatorship.
So by your definition of terrorism, what we did to Iraq makes us terrorists.
As far as proposition 1 goes…there are still plenty of places in SF to enlist, just not the schools where recruiters have been shown to consistently lie to students in order to meet their quotas. Until they are regulated in some way they should be banned.
I respect your point of view, and the service that you have volunteered to do for out country. However, my problem with your post is that your stated reasosn for doing what you do are not unquestionable. I do not doubt that you take these reasosn seriosuly, and believe them, but they are not necessarily unassailable statements of the truth. The argument that we are fighting the terrorists in Iraq so we don’t have to fight them here has never really made any sense to me. Terrorists are not an army. They are not a force that can be sucked into Iraq and thus leave them unable to conduct attacks elsewhere. It would seem that the terror attacks in many countries since the war has begun disproves this point. Secondly, the terrorists are cells which are largely independently organized, not an army which is mandated from above. It seems obvious that the terrorists are still very much interested in attacking Western targets, so it would seem that this war has, in fact, made it possible for the terrorists to fight us in Iraq and, one can oly assume, in America also. Britain has troops in Iraq, but there was a terrorist strike in London just this past summer.
I agree with you, however, that people should not target the individual soldier, just for the reason that these wars are started for political reasons. What should be kept in mind is that it is exactly because of this fact that San Francisco has voted to ban recruitment in schools. There is a massive crisis of confidence in the political leadership of this country at the moment. As a result, many people do not at all trust our political leaders to make sound judgment calls on issues of life and death, such as war. The result is that people wish to keep their children from being convinced by recruiters to become the sacrifical lambs of very irresponsible politicans who have gotten us into a real mess. It is not the soldier who they protest, but the leadership who orders the soldier. Once you are in, you must follow orders. if those who give the orders can be trusted, than this is a job worht risking your life for. if those leaders cannot be trusted to really act with the national interest in mind, it is better to avoid getting involved before it is too late to say no.
Hey madmatt,
You should re-read the definition AS posted. There was nothing ‘unlawful’ about our invasion. In addition, our ‘intention’ certainly was not to ‘intimidate’ or ‘coerce’, but to protect and liberate.
But you will never believe that madmatt, because you hate GW so much, you know in your heart that there must be some evil reason that we went to war.
It is because of this hatred, that you and those who hate GW like you do, shit on the very people who are willing to lay down their lives to save your ass, whether they agree with you or not.
madmatt, you’re way off base with your comment. Many school-aged kids are thinking of their future and often enter the Army to assist them in their carrer and furthering their education. While the Marine Corp. doesn’t promote its branch as a career, the Army does. If colleges are allowed to go to high schools to promote their school, then why can’t enlisting in the military be offerred as an option as well? Nobody is lying to kids to “meet their quotas”. As a parent I would be as equally involved in my child’s education choice by being informed. In other words, if recruiters should be banned then so should all colleges. Does that make sense? No!! All options should be extended to kids, including the option of enlisting in the military. Which, in my view is just as honorable as going to an Ivy League school, if not more.
Some — not all — soldiers in Iraq think that they are fighting terrorism. Just because they are risking their lives doesn’t change the fact that they are not fighting terrorism, but, in fact, helping foment it. More Americans are dying in terrorist attacks than every before in history — if this is “fighting” terrorism, then I vote we go back to not fighting it.
Also, we can dispense with this sentimental crap about American soldiers fighting for freedom in Iraq. Our fighting forces volunteer their lives to defend American freedom, and we honor them for that. If Iraq has ever been a threat to American freedom, it became a threat after we invaded it. Saddam Hussein has never been a threat to us. I can’t say the same thing for the Bush Administration.
– Winston
AS,
I totally agree with your post. It is somewhat similar to Ma Deuce Gunner’s post today. If you dont read his blog, he just returned to the US from Iraq. Here is his url if you want to check it out. http://madeucegunners.blogspot.com/
My brother just returned to the states today from Iraq, he is going to Ranger school! Im soooooo happy!
Take care,
Ashley
1. People against torture hate freedom.
Is it possible for someone to be against torture (by the CIA) yet still support freedom?
2. People against military recruiters in Universities hate soldiers.
See any similarities between those two blanket statements?
I am with you on this one!! i do agree that there are always some people out there that take things to extremes and this could be the recuiters, but truth is if someone wants to inlist they will no matter what the recruiter says or does. i also think they should not be pushing or making broken promises, but overall they need to be presant at schoools so people have a choice, if it is not in front of them they will not see it.
“I am disgusted to think that a person would protest against the individual soldier. ”
And nowhere, repeat -NOWHERE, does the referendum prostest the ‘individual soldier’.
If one is so inclined to enlist they can go to a recruiting station elsewhere.
Hey what happened to the comment I just made?
Winston Smith chose an interesting name to post under. Like his namesake he lives in a world of doublespeak and nonsense, that if repeated often enough becomes ‘truth’. So on he goes, blowing the same smoke that we get from the mainstream media day after day. Same goes for Madmatt. (Why so mad, matt?)
There is copious evidence that the Sadaam government welcomed terrorists and still more evidence that he aided them as well. As for recruiters and lying, show us some proof, and if not proof at least a single example that they lie or perhaps even prevaricate on a routine basis. I suspect that the tenured professors on his campus do more to mislead than the recruiters do, especially those that teach history and political science. I can still hear the moral equivalence arguments from the profs I listened to telling all of us that the USSR was no better or worse in intent and outcome than the US. In any event, I am confident that history will show that Iraq was a sound move morally and strategically, and the mean spirited rants of public figures like Ted Kennedy and Dick Durban will some day be considered in the same light as those of Tokyo Rose and Alger Hiss.
Our soldiers are the best in the world and they serve with honor, putting their lives on the line in a good and noble cause. God bless them.
My comments keep not showing up! The elite in this country are REPUBLICANS who get huge tax cuts and NEVER send their kinds to War! Stop talking about “lefty liberal elites”–that is just ignorant!
More–People don’t like campus recruiting because the recruiters LIE to make their quotas–to kids too young to understand they will be sent to Iraq three four or five times while Barb and Jenna Bush continue to run up three thousand dollare-a-night bar tabs!
I guess we can include Mike Filancia on the ‘GW is evil and I hate him’ list also.
Hey Ralph–You’re trying to minimize the truth of what I say by putting me on your “Bush hater” list–why don’t you and your ilk start dealing with reality? or better yet, start addressing the criticism? Or do you have to hide behind dismissing people like me because you CAN’T refute our criticism?
I love lefty’s! Yes I am back!
One reason one might oppose blowing up a monument to fireman and killing San Franciscans is the nuber that died in Iraq.
http://icasualties.org/oif/images/US_City.jpg
Celearly California, New York and other liberal states have paid more than their share. Just as they pay more to the federal government than they get back while most Republican stattes do the opposite. Just as Democratic states have lower crime rates and other real indicators of morality while Republicans lecture while ignoring the higher divorce and illegitimate pregnancy rates in their states.
When wannabe pretend soldiers claim that it’s good to kill Americans they don’t like the sickness you represent becomes clear.
The logical inconsistencies in your arguments are astounding, as is true for most remaining Bush supporters. To wit: The man who dodged Vietnam by getting in the Air Guard, and then went AWOL, somehow has more integrity and balls than the “Lefty elite” who volunteered for combat, turned his boat into fire, and machine-gunned an enemy soldier. Supporting the troops means not wasting their lives. It means keeping your promises to them. It means sending them into harm’s way only when necessary to preserve our national security. Our fine soldiers are following orders in Iraq, but those orders are not issued toward the end of “preserving our freedom” or even “fighting the terrorists.” As has been incontrovertibly established, there was no link between Saddam and al Qaeda. Saddam had no WMDs. Saddam was boxed and contained, a toothless tiger. Bush & Co. mislead Congress, and then the American people, cherry-picked thin intelligence it knew to be discredited, hyped said intelligence, and keeps lying about it, and preventing any investigation into its malfeasance. If you, sir, love your freedom, troops, and country, George Bush should be the object of your ire, not the patriots who protest his duplicitous, imperious, ignorant, and dishonest behavior. Your loyalties are misplaced.
And Ralph–the thing about Barb and Jenna Bush’s bar tabs–it happens to be the truth! During the Republican convention in New York, one bar the twins went to actually revealed the size of their bar tab (in one place!) which was actually $4700–granted, they weren’t alone.
Can’t you guys come up with anything besides comments like “you fucking leftys”? Like I said before, you basically can’t refute what reasonable people say!
You wrote:
“I am disgusted to think that a person would protest against the individual soldier. ”
We can agree or disagree about that ona case-by-case basis (I happen to think that being in uniform doesn’t justify all actions, that’s why we have rules of engagement and the Military Code of Conduct), however since you provide no evidence that anyone has protested against any individual soldier, what’s your point?
It sounds like the start of an Urban Myth a la spitting on returning soldiers, or maybe just inflamatory rhetoric to dsicredit opponents of the war by inuendo.
The closest I’ve seen to protests against individual soldiers is the funeral protests of the Westbro Baptist Church. http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/news/local/13091702.htmThey aren’t oppenents of the war (at least I don’t think they are) and in this case I agree that their actions are disgusting.
Paul–what is the “copious evidence” that Sadaam H welcomed terrorists? Please, enlighten us! And as for the recruitment lies, go to the archives of the New York Times–you’ll find quite a few articles that document what kids were told, including that they would never see active combat. It’s people like you who are so “befogged” by the doublespeak of Bush and Co that you can’t see straight–it’s you who are rapidly being consigned to the fool’s dustbin of history!
BTW–hope all you crazy Republicans saw the poll today that shows more people trust Bill Clinton than Bush! Are you choking yet?
Hey Mike F or should I call you another Michael Moore puppet! Did you know Mark Kennedy had a nephew go to Afganistan, or that Brooks Jhonston and Duncan hunter sons went to Iraq? These are congressmen.
what about the service records of Bush and Cheney?
Did you know Cheny was never in the military? Secretary of Defence needs no Military service. Also I am betting Bush’s Reccords are better than Kerry’s considering He never released him.
People don’t like campus recruiting because the recruiters LIE to make their quota
Bull- My Father was a Recruiter for the Navy, And lying and dirty tactics has a tendency to get you removed as that Hurts the intregrety. Are there a few bad Apples, yes but as I said they don’t last long. All they do is Give another option like College Recruiters, whats the difference? Also its the Person’s choice to enlist if they want to enlist. Don’t like the Armed forces, don’t Join. its as simple as that.
Barb and Jenna Bush continue to run up three thousand dollare-a-night bar tabs!
So the Sins of the Daughter are the Sins of the father?
Hey Ralph–You’re trying to minimize the truth of what I say by putting me on your “Bush hater”
you must be streching the word “truth” to its limits.
“copious evidence” that Sadaam H welcomed terrorists?
http://www.husseinandterror.com/
I like the Achille Lauro incident, Iraqi DIplomatic Immunity…. Yeah no evidence there no evidence what so ever.
Well, since alcoholism is apparently genetic, maybe they are sins of the father. And you don’t address the main point I’m making with the twins–if our invasion of Iraq is so noble, if we all have to sacrifice, why aren’t they serving? Why are so many soldiers from the working class instead of elite rich Republicans? And I’m referring to Cheney’s lack of service in the Vietnam War doofus–he had “other priorities”–remeber? All I’m saying is–whay isn’t the sacrifice sread around more? Please address that!
And that really makes sense–”Bush’ records are probably better than Kerry’s becasue hge never released him” [I think you meant “them”–hilarious!! Let’s see those records!
And I checked out that Sadaam website–where is the picture of Donald Rumsfeld shaking SH’s hand? How about the 1999-2000 contract Halliburton signed with Sadaam–you know, when Dick Cheney was the CEO?
maybe they are sins of the father.
I have a friend who was abused by his father as he was an alacholic, and He has yet to follow in his footsteps, thanks for inserting foot into mouth.
if our invasion of Iraq is so noble, if we all have to sacrifice, why aren’t they serving?
Congressmen who supported the war has sons in the war, Hello I named some members who have family serving, what else do you want! Also IIRC not all congressmen have children, some have children but cannot qualify for service.
Why are so many soldiers from the working class instead of elite rich Republicans?
http://tapscottscopydesk.blogspot.com/2005/10/data-shows-military-recruits-highly.html
Check out the graphic above. Note the proportions of recruits from each of the five demographic quintiles, organized according to per capita income by zip code. The percentage of recruits from the poorest quintile is actually lower in 1999 and 2003 than the percentage for the richest quintile.
Kinda is a kick in the nuts to have your theroy blow up.
And I’m referring to Cheney’s lack of service in the Vietnam War doofus
Like what, Running a company? When is that a crime? Did I ever call you a name, but obviously you cannot seem to have the Maturity to engage in any form of inteligent debate, retard.
[I think you meant “them”–hilarious!! Let’s see those records!
I was kicking myself for rewritting a sencence, and for got to delete some things. But If that is all you can some up with and not a real arguement keep on typing as I love when whittle wiberal get all upset.
To Winston, Filancia, Clark et. al.:
Thanks for the flashback. I haven’t had this much fun since Reagan won in 1980…sitting in the quad, listening to other young skulls of mush regurgitate the peacenik dog-poop that their professors served up on a regular basis…if only we had the Bush twins back then!
Ralph,
I might even crack open a beer and ride this one out. I’m enjoying myself as well.
OH taking Photos out of a context now. Where is the Photo Of Jhon Kerry meeting whith Ho-chi-minh in paris or Jane Fonda and the AAA gun. And I love the Codepink coffins that were in front of the Walter Reed hospital.
I don’t understand why you think the soldiers dying in Iraq are dying to defend America. They don’t have a choice in going where the CinC sent them, and I’m sure a lot or most of them would like to think that they’re suffering for a good cause, but that doesn’t necessarily make it so.
Here’s the cold truth: our soldiers in Iraq are dying b/c the CinC, faced with various domestic scandals and tanking poll numbers, needed something to distract the public and bring about that whole rally-around-the-flag-and-Prez phenomn. Sad, but true.
Enjoy your beers and laugh all you want at “leftys”–the bottom line is Katrina showed what an inept, incompetent out of touch boob Bush is–now most people realize all this fear mongering and strutting around claiming to be a great leader who would “keep us safe” is a big pile of manure–the only people who still believe the bullshit are sad, sorry types like yourself–wake up and join the majority–Bush will NEVER recover from what Katrina revealed about him! Quack, Quack!
Mike F,
Actually I was there a few days after Katrina hit. In fact I was one of the first American soldiers to aid & rescue in that city. I think you were a little too distracted with your fellow ‘ducks’ to even care about we soldier’s were doing to help. What did you do about Katrina besides cry inept?
So I’m a sad sorry type? Hmm are you angry at me because I am a Soldier? An American? Or someone with a view that is opposite of yours?
American Soldier–why are you so quick to assume that I was too distracted to help with Katrina? You are just demonstrating the extremely close minded view you have of the world–that’s what I object to, not the fact that you are a soldier. And I’m not angry at you–I just can’t believe that you can’t see what’s right in front of your face–that Bush is a failure on all levels!
Sorry for the multiple emails but I can’t seem to get longer ones to post. ANyway, FYI American Soldier, I let two families from New Orleans stay in a house I own in Houston and I donated $500 to the Red Cross. Why is it that you think only what you do is important? You’re obviouly so bigoted that you can’t even conceive a “lefty” would do anything commendable–You’ re an American–well, so am I–like Bush, do you need to cast aspersions on the patriotism of people you know nothing about? That kind of attitude is what’s screwed up.
Mike F,
I am quick to assume because all I heard was you yapping about how Bush is a failure for Katrina.
I have not demonstrated my closed minded view, I have expressed myself. It is being labeled ‘closed minded’ by you because you don’t respect what I am saying.
Now the Bush comment, well you will never see eye to eye with me until you can be receptive to other views. Right now you are trying to ‘out-do’ what I and others are saying in this forum.
My job is my choice. I don’t put it above what you might do or the man who delivers my mail. I am who I am and happy with that. My views are mine. Make your point as a lefty or get the fuck on. Cause lingering and degrading every comment is only going to make you look like a bigot.
American Soldier–where are you getting that stuff about putting your job above or below anyone else’s –it’s hard to take your veiws seriously when you just make stuff up. Bush IS a failure–how do you jump from that to thinking I sat around paying no attention to KAtrina? It was Bush who didn’t pay attention for how many days–but what is the point in discussing anything with you? Your mind is all ready made up, no matter what the evidence. So go ahead and listen to Bill O’Reilly (who bragged about cheating on his pregnant wife with some “hot Italian babes” after meeting the Pope) or Rush Limbaugh who is a drug addict. Your paranoid bigoted perspective is fuelled by people like them and our Fear-Mongerer -in-Chief.
LOL!
You need to read a little closer to what I write. I didn’t say I put my job above anyone. I said it ISN’T above anyone else. I’m trying to show you that I no different than the other American out there, you included. I just so happen to have a forum in which to voice my opinions.
Armies have always wanted “young men” for the same reasons. they are easy to program. You may object to the term but how else do you explain how an educated raised in the good old USA teenager would willingly cross an open field with the bad guys shooting round after round trying kill you. Any ordinay human being including any policeman anywhere in the country would say, wait a minute, maybe I should wait for help here. A soldier disregards that he may die and runs through that field. Now you might say this is bravery,and in a subjective way it is,but it is also group mind control, for the good of the group etc. Don’t misunderstand, we need the services but the price that they are willing to make in behalf of the rest of us should be reserved only for the most extreme reasons. Oil and dictators that have grown out of favor should not be the reason for thousands of dead and wounded.
Well I guess I’m a Robot.
I grew up poorer than dirt but was brought up right. How am I any different than the rich kid up the road? Now I must of been the most programmed soldier because I was the Distiguished Honor Graduate. I respect your comment but I disagree with your logic about programming. Some people have it in them and others don’t. People can talk all they want but until that bullet zings by your head you will never know how you will react in combat. There is no amount of training that can prepare you for that. Fight or flight kicks in and that is the true test of a combat soldier. Not how much combat ‘training’ they partake in.
I think it’s hillarious how a topic about recruiters in schools has turned into an all-out debate about GW. This is the ONE thing liberals are so good at doing…..flip-flopping and changing the subject to avoid morality and the truth.
Trying to ban recruiters from COLLAGE campuses is really stupid. I would say high school would be ok, but recruiters have a reputation of being pushy and dishonest. When that happens you get kids in basic who really don’t want to be there and will eventually find a way out. That is a waste of time and resources at best.
WooWhee! AS, you ARE back!! I love it!
The thing that upsets me the most about all this is “choice”, or the lack thereof…A certain group of people are making it so that another group of people are not allowed the “choice” for information in regard to the Military. Seems to me that that is happening alot in this country lately and I fear that. What about personal choice? That is what an all volunteer military is based on. Yes, I know, they can go to the recruiting office for information. But why should they? Colleges send “recruiters” to schools, businesses send “recruiters” to schools. But isn’t this more about that it’s something this group doesn’t like? But because one group of people doesn’t like something, the choice for another group to make up their own minds is taken away. Ok, so SF voted to stop Recruiters from going on school campus. That’s how they want it there, fine. They chose it. But to go on and try to make it that way for everyone else smacks of dictatorship leanings that doesn’t leave much room for personal choice. And just so you know, I just spent this last year going through the enlistment process with my daughter who went up to a recruiter on her high school campus to ask questions - her choice. I also live not far from SF.
Welcome Back,AS
Great post… very well said.
What business is it of yours if I want to get together with a few hundred thousand of my friends and vote not to allow recruiters to run around schools saying the wild things recruiters say TO MAKE THEIR QUOTAS!!!
It wasn’t a bunch of lefties who voted to boot recruiters out — it was a bunch of parents. People who’ve read stuff like this:
“Nearly a year after Congress demanded action, the Pentagon has still failed to figure out a way to reimburse soldiers for body armor and equipment they purchased to better protect themselves while serving in Iraq.” 9/29/05 USA Today
And this:
“While Congress was larding on the pork, “Defense appropriators trimmed $300 million from the Pentagon’s procurement accounts, including those that fund armor for Humvees and other vehicles in Iraq, and another $411 million was taken from the Defense Department’s operations and maintenance and research and development accounts,” according to the report. The article quotes Winslow Wheeler, a former Senate Budget Committee staff member: “We know from the proportionate, across-the-board cuts (required to cover congressional pork spending) that body armor and armor kits for Humvees and trucks were affected.” 1/10/05 Jacksonville Daily News
Nobody trusts this administration with their money or with their kids.
Ben,
Those articles are a bunch of hog wash. I can attest that Body Armor was not a problem in fiscal year 2005. Nor was the issue with Unarmored Humvees.
If you believe half the crap that is on CNN or other news sources then you are very naive to this war and what the administration has done. Read some milblogs and just see how many complaints about equipment. You will not find a single post pf me complaining that I didn’t have equipment in the last 16 months.
Don’t get my wrong, I am not degrading your opinion but I want you to see that this is coming from a soldier who has lived it, breathed it and knows the reality of what we get in war.
AS — I have friends just back from Iraq in the Oregon Guard and it’s pretty unamusing how hard it is to get Interceptor (much less Dragon Skin) body armor. Now if you’re talking Vietnam era flak vests… you can keep ‘em.
So if I do a google search for you and find out the number of people killed/wounded by roadside IEDs were in un or underarmored HMMWVs, will you accept that it’s an issue?
For that matter, I’ve talked to people from the 19th SFG (which I used to be in) who’ve worked training Iraqi soldiers and one of the Iraqi beefs is that we provide them with our castoffs. Instead of flushing billions into non-starter reconstruction projects and letting corrupt Iraq Defense Ministry people “lose” it, we could’ve bought the Iraqis real body armor. That would’ve sent them a message they would’ve believed in. Instead we’re going through, what is it, the third cycle of trying to train up a combat-ready Iraqi force?
And at ease on the Jacksonville, NC Daily News, hunh… And at ease on SF voters for figuring out that when a recruiters lips are moving and he’s telling your kid, “Oh you won’t have to go to Iraq.”… it’s not the truth.
Any unit that deployed this year gets IBA’s. Whether they deployed from Camp Shelby a national guard Mob site or a major Army post. Everyone also gets the new Rapid Field Initiative (RFI) issue. This includes the Mitch helmet. I’m not talking about years past, I am talking now.
Tankers die from IED’s now. So I wasn’t referring to the Up-Armored HMMWV’s protecting our soldiers form IED’s. They will however protect us from small arms fire and RPG’s. Sorry, IED’s suck for us over there. I wish there a better solution but we have made many improvements.
I’ve also had friends train the ING’s and yes, there seems to be logistical issues with supplying them. That will also get worked out like the equipment issue was.
Any recruiter who tells a potential recruit that they won’t go to Iraq is a fool. I’m not saying everyone has morals. I know as a leader in the NCO corps, that I would not have that. It starts at the lowest levels. This is anywhere you go.
Hey American Soldier. I’m a long time reader first time poster.
Anyway someone should tell Ben Hamar that IEDs tend to mess up HMMWV reguardless if they are uparmored or not. Hell IED can screw up an Stryker or even an Abrams if it hits it right. Use enough explosives on something and you can mess it up. The issue shouldn’t be are the HMMWV’s uparmored to me it should be, IMHO, who are providing the explosives and knowledge to make IED’s and does the military have everything they need to send them to hell?
Anyway back on topic of the banning of Military recruters. I think all recruters of any job should be banned. Cause we all know that a person between the ages 18-25 is too stupid to realize that if they join one of the military branches there is a chance that they may go to another country and put their lives in danger. Clearly they’re too stupid that if they choose any other job they wont know what they are getting into.
I mean if they choose Fireman they’re going to be utter surprized that they are going to fight fires and that fire is hot.
You’re right that most of the HMMWVs on the road now are uparmored… although obviously, the 14 Marines who died in their amphib a couple months back didn’t have enough armor. And, as you’ve pointed out, the IEDs are a lot more powerful now and are killing soldiers inside Bradleys and tanks.
But I think you’re way too quick to dismiss the news media. Call ‘em out when they’re wrong — but they’re usually right. Fox news excepted, of course.
The source used in the Jacksonville Daily News… here’s an 9/20/05 update from them:
“The Defense Department sent a revised $1.1 billion budget reprogramming request to the Armed Services committees late last week, amid concerns on Capitol Hill that the original document would have slashed funding for critical force-protection programs.
Like the original request, the revision paper would help fund high-priority Army programs related to operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. But the new document omits proposals to cut more than $300 million from efforts to armor and produce new Humvee tactical vehicles used during combat patrols.”
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0905/092005cdam2.htm
And why are these cuts necessary? Because the administration can’t cut pork like that bridge in Alaska or give up pushing tax cuts for the wealthy in time of war. Until these guys get their priorities straight, I’m all for SF voters kicking recruiters out of their schools.
First about Katrina:
1: FEMA and the Federal releif agencies cannot BY LAW enter the area until a disaster is declared and the state Governor calls for Federal assistance. This was not done in Louisiana. Mississipi and Alabama DID call for aid early and got it.
2: Reported by Major Garret on FOX News, The Red Cross was loaded and on route the day atfer the storm but was ordered to stay out by the Louisiana Dept. of Homeland Security. Why? They “did not want to create a ‘magnet’ for survivors at the Super Dome by bringing in supplies” Which was were survivors were told to go by local authorities and this left them stranded with nothing.
3: New Orleans officail disaster responce dictates that municipal transportation would be used to evacuate citizens with no other way out of the city. But as the New Orleans mayor was reported to say, He pitched a fit about “Why wasn’t Greyhound getting off their asses and sending buses.” And so all his perfectly usable buses were destroyed in the flood while he waited for more luxurious transportation….
The ultimate repsonsibilty for the fiasco after Katrina lies soley with the Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans. They are the LOCAL Authority. They control the FIRST RESPONDERS. The Federal Government is the SECOND LINE of responce. It is logistically impossible for the Feds to mobilize such a massive responce instantly. Bush did mobilize before the storm even hit by getting naval and other assets moving but such assets take time to arrive from all around the country.
Second The US is more than a Place its an Ideal, people die trying to get to the US for the oppertunity. As human beings we have a responcibility to free others under the Yolk of Oppression. Or are we too Selfish.
Because the administration can’t cut pork like that bridge in Alaska or give up pushing tax cuts for the wealthy in time of war.
Oh and Don’t think the Pork is Limited to one Party. Pork tends to be a staple for both parties, or is you Ideaology blinding you. Also Ever considered the DoD thought they were going to have problems with congress who decides the spending, not Bush.
I don’t want Jevovah’s Witnesses knocking at my door day and night, I don’t want insurance salesmen hounding me at work, I sure as hell don’t want recruiters for death in Iraq harrasing my kids at college with lies about how peachy things are.
Show me an army coming over the Atlantic to invade, you’ll have no trouble getting volunteers. Hell *I’ll* sign up even tho I’m 55. Defending America ain’t the same as stealing oil on the other side of the world!
I agree with Ben.
Well… I gotta sign off now. I’m sure you’ll find a couple of holes to chew in me. Good luck.
My hats off to anybody in Iraq. But… No matter how good a job they’re doing, they’re not able to get the job done because the problem in Iraq is mostly political.
Everybody I’ve talked to says that things got a lot worse after Abu Ghraib hit the news. We’ve got an administration that can’t figure out that tiny gains we get from torturing terrorists are far outweighed by the loss of trust and growing antagonism amongst most Iraqis.
And the number of hajis setting off IEDs just keeps growing.
And draft-avoiding Bill O’Reilly (graduated h.s. in 1967) needs to sign over his paycheck to pay for rehab for the wounded and quit mouthing off about other people’s patriotism.
Long posts seem to get dropped… Perhaps wordpress needs some attention? (I’ve posted twice, but both times, it does not show up.)
I tried posting too and it never showed up.
“Show me an army coming over the Atlantic to invade, you’ll have no trouble getting volunteers. Hell *I’ll* sign up even tho I’m 55. Defending America ain’t the same as stealing oil on the other side of the world”
Ahh that old chestnut. “Stealing oil.”. Which is why we’re paying more for gas. All the stolen oil.
And yeah… terrorist will use fleets of ships to invade the United States. Someone missed the anphibious landing one Sept 10th morning.
I’d just like those opposing this war to answer some questions for me please. What is so different about Bush fighting this war as opposed to when Clinton led his attack on Iraq in 1998? Would your same views be the same about the war? Or is this fight strictly against our administration?
Winston- this comment is for you when you said that “Saddam Hussein has never been a threat to us. I can’t say the same thing for the Bush Administration.”
Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike
CLINTON: Good evening.
Earlier today, I ordered America’s armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.
Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.
Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.
You can read the rest here:
http://www.soldierlife.com/?p=523#comment-11483
I’d just like those opposing this war to answer some questions for me please. What is so different about Bush fighting this war as opposed to when Clinton led his attack on Iraq in 1998? Would your same views be the same about the war? Or is this fight strictly against our administration?
Winston- this comment is for you when you said that “Saddam Hussein has never been a threat to us. I can’t say the same thing for the Bush Administration.”
Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike
CLINTON: Good evening.
Earlier today, I ordered America’s armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.
Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.
Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.
You can read the rest here:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/12/16/transcripts/clinton.html
Hey AS,
Wow! What a firestorm of comments! Seems this subject has definitely struck a nerve!
I do respect you AS for what you do for us as Americans. I believe some people don’t respect our soldiers or our military enough. I’m just so thankful to have people like you AS to protect my butt!
Thank You Again!!
The oil prices have everything to do with the “BIG” oil industries and their gouging prices. The oil prices we paid during the hurricanes was unfounded. It takes months and months to refine oil into gas. This means that what we were paying at the pump was refined oil in our reserves. But no one can answer that question for us just now. Maybe that’s why congress is asking all those “tough” questions? lol
Quote from Dear Leader’s speech on Veteran’s’ Day:
“While it’s perfectly legitimate to criticize my decision or the conduct of the war (…)”
The last time I looked, we still lived in the U.S.A., a country, you know, that is famous for UNIMPEDED freedom of speech.
Of course, Dear leader has to acknowledge that it’s perfectly legitimate to criticize his decision or the conduct of the war. He is just paying lip service to something he does not believe in: the democratic process.
He has done nothing in the past three years but denounce as unpatriotic and un-American people who actually disagree with him. That is what dictators do.
So, keep it up, despotic rightwingers. Freedom of speech is alive and well in this country, despite the Patriot Act and other tyrannical curbs in people’s civil and human rights.
You people would love nothing better than throw your opponents in jail, torture them, or “render” them, under the guise that your opponents are traitors. That is exactly what your hated Communists did with their opponents. You are just like them.
First thats out of context, His speach was against Dem Senators who claimed he Lied when he in fact was essentally finishing what Clinton started.
Patriot Act and other tyrannical curbs in people’s civil and human rights.
I guessed you Never Read the RICO (Racketteering Intimidation and Criminal Orginizations)statue either and compared it to the Patriot act. Did you know it also Kinda puts a dent in civil rights.
Freedom of speech is alive and well in this country,
Just like when Bush called you out when he mentioned Clinton’s inteligence and Iraq.
ou people would love nothing better than throw your opponents in jail, torture them, or “render” them, under the guise that your opponents are traitors.
Yet here you are writting your opoinion meanwhile you don’t have to worry the Mean Old Republicas won’t drag you away unlike the Bloggers in China and Egypt who were arrested after critizing thier Oppressive governments. So Keep writting and Keep proving the First amendment still is respected by the Evil Karl Rove.
Arrgh Brain fart… I hate long days and no sleep.
Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization, sorry about the mistake.
I guess no one else finds it ironic that a city that preaches tolerance displays none unless it mimicks their agendas or beliefs. The referendum is a joke.
Thank you for your service AS, I for one am a proud supporter of our Military AND our Mission.
I find it funny that SF loves “freedom” but bogs people down in leglisation. Such as “you cannot own a gun” or Limits the choices of people by throwing out the recruiters. If colleges have recruiters shouldn’t it be just as fair for the Military to be reprensented equally, thats equality. Or tolerance for people who think different.
Hey that was a nice dictionary definition of what is means to be a terrorist. Now, all you have to do is explain how that definition does NOT apply to the Bush regime’s action in Iraq.
Oh, never mind…you can just call me names instead!
Now, all you have to do is explain how that definition does NOT apply to the Bush regime’s action in Iraq.
Like how the Iraqis themselves voted for thier own consitution which they wrote, I mean those evil American soilders had to Bomb them with IED’s to convince them to vote for it…. Oh wait that was Al Queda with the IED and car bombs killing Iraqis.
Each of us has our own interpretation of what is read, seen and understood. Just because you hear one thing from the President’s speech doesn’t necessarily mean that’s what we all heard. People hear only what they choose to hear missing important factors inbetween which in retrospect gives it an entirely different meaning to each person Evil. But to judge people with this media painted picture of “right wingers” doesn’t necessarily mean that ALL right wingers believe or condone torturing, throwing traitors in jail and whatever else you babbled off. That to me sounds more like the ingorant form of the truth than the actual truth. But this country was founded by differences of opinion and beliefs in something, that’s what made America, America. All wars in history have been debated, condemend and praised. Unfortunately this was just the next in line for it to happen. But this doesn’t mean that what the men and women are doing in Iraq is wrong. Why or how they got there doesn’t make a difference. They are there and it’s our american duty to support those who are fighting and dying. Without our support for them, do you think they’d fight on our homeland for you if they didn’t think they’d get the support because a select few wouldn’t agree? NO, they’d do it because the vast majority of them would die for their flag, for OUR freedom, our constitution because they love this country so much. These soliders fighting are the PRIDE OF AMERICA, not you or I, not even our President. Without soliders over in Iraq now, we wouldn’t be the America we are now.
Mike F,
I just want you to know my family is a very large republican family and we have alot of retired and AD military in our family. Also, I am supporting my son who will be joining right after high school.
In addition, we are pretty well off financially. Of course we all work and have good careers thanks to the great freedom this country provides.
The sins of the politicians - left and right - are paid for by the military. Blaming the public for losing faith in their government misses the point. The abuse of the National Guard is a prime example. No wonder they are having trouble replenishing their ranks.
Let’s drop the idea that holding the government accountable and making them pay for their abuses makes you a traitor.
Then again, I am a Flaming Moderate. Both the left and the right have serious blind spots.
Hello,
While there are many aspects of your argument that frighten me, this line really reeks of fascism. I don’t know if you noticed typing it, but look at it again and think it over:
“I am disgusted to think that a person would protest against the individual soldier. The ones who fight for the freedom, which in turn gives them the right to speak their mind.”
Last time I checked, the constitution “gives them the right to speak their mind.”
Are you insinuating that only those who participate in a particular military effort should have “the right to speak their mind”? Is that the kind of America that our troops are fighting for?
As a reporter I’ve done a lot to champion veterans’ causes. My father is a vietnam veteran and all four of my grandparents were WW2 veterans. And I’m sure all of them would be equally appalled at the notion that carrying a gun should be a prerequisite to participating in the American democracy.
I’m an American citizen, and I have the right to speak my mind whether I choose to participate in an ill-conceived and unneccessary war or not.
God bless America. And god bless those poor souls dying for the mistakes of the American government.
AS, glad to see you’re back on top of the game! I have enjoyed these discussions and I wonder “has the time come for H.R.163?” I think it has, Americans, unfortunately, speak of their freedoms and the Constitution of the United States but I wonder how many of them have actually earned the freedom they enjoy so much. I say Americans because I was born in Cuba and I do not take for granted the freedoms my new country has given me. Yes, I do believe it is time for all Americans to commit 2 years of service to their country. It is time for Americans to “earn” their freedom, not just go for a joy ride on the sweat and blood of the American Soldiers. People, put up or Shut Up!
Semper Fi!
*applause* Well said, AS!!!!! Excellant post, excellant piece of writing too! Thank you for being so willing to defend this land we love–and all of us in it!!!! Hat’s off to you, Sir!!!
Just because we as Americans have the freedom to do something, does not make it morally right. In Washington state, a guy just died after having “intimate affairs” with a horse. His colon exploded.
Point being: Just cause your state says you can legally do something, doesnt mean you should.
Protesting against soldiers because of a gov’ts choice, only makes you out to be a tool. IF you think there is a problem with a business, you go to the boss, not the workers.
If you so dearly love your “freedoms to talk sh*t on soldiers”, then you better learn to bite your tongue, because one day they just may decide that your sorry ass isn’t worth dieing for, and then you’ll be in a world of trouble.
You whiney liberals can cry all you want about GW, and the democrats can cry too, but it doesn’t change what they all said about WMD’s.
I know that you are not that bright, but apparently you recognize a quality contrasting argument when you see one.
We have a word for people who would rather run away from a fight than fight it–
coward!
It is no wonder that the American Soldier is the barbarian of our time.
My brother recently died in Iraq and I fear he died for nothing.
I don’t care what the Republicans or Democrats said about WMD’s before the war, after or during– they are all scum.
The fact remains he is dead. Iraq is thousands and thousands of miles away, I just don’t get it. What did he die for? A politician? A cause? Oil? Politics in a third world country? I don’t think I’ll ever know.
American Soldiers are dying.
I think rather than a bunch of “hoorahs” and charges into battle, we should think long, deep and hard on what this all really means.
My brother’s children will never know their father-never!
I hope Bush and the die-hard Republicans truly appreciate and recognize their loss, but they never will.
Why do you keep ranting for this soulless cause?
-A grieving sister of an American Soldier
Aeon,
Maybe you should be asking yourself “why did my brother join the service?”
I have an extremely hard time with posts like this! Our politicians don’t just pick out random people to send into battle. That is what our military men are for. To protect and serve our country. Your brother joined the service for whatever reasons he may have had, but he also knew what the possibilites were. All soliders know that it is always a possibility. I feel sorry for your lose but instead of pointing the finger at why he was lost, celebrate the fact that he will always be remembered! He will be remembered in each Iraqi’s hearts as the American solider who died for their freedom! A legacy that will ALWAYS be remembered!
My brother also fought in this war. Two days after his 9 months old son’s funeral he received his orders. He didn’t ask questions or try to get out of hit, he went into battle with his head and flag flying high. To this day he doesnt’ ask, why was I there or what was this for? He says each day that he is thankful to been a part of it and each day they watch the news he says to his daughter “your daddy was a part of that” That is what she boisters to her friends and teachers, that her daddy helped free those people. Not that he was gone for a long time. Your brothers children will one day do that also. They will have such pride in what their father did and that is the legacy that they will remember!
I’m amazed to see that no one has yet to answer my questions from before! So I’ll ask them again:
What is so different about Bush fighting this war as opposed to when Clinton led his attack on Iraq? Would your views be the same about the war? Or is this fight strictly against our administration?